J_K9 @ Linux

Proposing An Open Source Groove Alternative

February 13, 2007 on 12:34 am | In Linux, Realistic Ideas, Mira Groupware |

Groove is a software initially developed by Groove Networks and now owned and developed by Microsoft as a component of the Office 2007 Enterprise suite. It is a project management application which uses the client-server model and integrates chat, filesharing, calendar, discussion, picture sharing, and is also extensible in that third party tools can be integrated to improve the experience. In Groove, a Workspace may be created and Groove members may be invited to join that Workspace and, if and when they join, they will be set a role in that project by the Workspace’s Manager. It encrypts files in that Workspace on-the-fly so as to maintain the confidentiality of the data and, following the client-server model, each member of the Workspace downloads a synced version of the Workspace’s files and other data for their perusal and modification offline. For more information on how Groove works, see this TechNet article. The only feature that the Groove project management software lacks is a good version control system - and, unfortunately, it is closed-source (proprietary) software.

And good version control systems are exactly what Open Source has: Concurrent Versions System (CVS), Subversion (SVN), Git, etc. However, we don’t have a tool which integrates (or acts as a layer on top of) these excellent systems with collaboration modules to produce an outstanding and free project management system.

Plone (content management)…..would handle most of the online
collaboration…. and dotProject (for project management)

The above quote is taken from a post to a mailing list about Open Source alternatives to Groove, and the situation now is as dire as it was one and a half years ago. Plone and dotProject are excellent projects, but they are not, together, a suitable replacement for an all-in-one project management solution such as Groove. The fact that Plone and dotProject are web-based makes them even less a suitable replacement, especially in our current day, for the interface is slower and is more detached from the desktop. One much also be online to use those solutions, whereas you can alter your Workspace’s files offline and then synchronise them with the server the next time you’re online with Groove.

What we need to do is build an Open Source replacement for Groove. Groove is good, but it is not without its faults. I believe that the Open Source community can build an application which either provides a layer of collaboration over an existing version control system or which integrates one (or multiple) of those systems which will not only rival Groove, but which will be better, faster (Groove’s interface, although minimalistic, is a little slow) and more secure. Here are some of the features or characteristics I envisage:

User-Friendly and Intuitive Interface

Take a close look at Groove’s interface. In fact, download a trial copy of Groove on a Windows machine (if you have access to one - if not, please look around or ask me for screenshots) and check it out for yourself. Also scroll down Marc Olson’s Groove 2007 Blog, which will give you a deeper insight into Groove’s functionality.

Despite Groove’s user-intuitiveness, there are some features which are confusing or unsatisfactory. Resolving name conflicts is a nuisance, because you can’t directly remove one of the names. The version control system employed by Groove is poor at best, although I like the way it notifies you of updates within tools in a Workspace (as explained here). We need to make it even simpler.

If there is sufficient interest in this application, I shall create a few mockups of its interface, although Groove’s interface is an excellent starting point.
Support For The Mainstream Version Control Systems

Ideally, this application would be able to run on top of CVS, SVN and Git by making each different version control system a separate ‘tool’ (to use Groove’s terminology). Thus, to create an SVN-managed repository, for example, all the Workspace’s Manager would need to do is add a ‘Subversion Tool’ to the Workspace.

Using the method explained above, supporting multiple version control systems would not be as complex as it might first have seemed.
Extensible And Flexible Design

An extensible design would allow third party developers to create their own tools which could then be added on to this application to extend its functionality in new and exciting ways. Want a whiteboard to draw things with your fellow developers in real-time? Download and install the tool. Want to implement support for a VoIP application so that you can have conference calls with your developers? Download and install the tool.

I have many, many more ideas in mind for this software. Please take a moment to look at Groove if you have the time and, if you like what you see and read, let me know about it and express an interest in watching an improved, Open Source version of this highly useful and productivity-increasing utility become a reality.

If there is sufficient demand for this application, I will recruit a group of developers, set up a SourceForge.net site for the software and set up a donations account to speed up the development process and support the developers. However, you will only ever see this software spring out of my mind and onto your desktops and servers if you provide your support, so please do leave a comment and let me know what you think!

Update: This project has been dubbed “Mira Groupware” and is now pending review for hosting on SourceForge.net!

Windows last released versions like xp and vista emerged with more enhanced features and more compatible with new technologies in software and hardware. These two versions forced trainers to conduct upgrading exams with 70-270 and 70-620 study guides to meet workforce training requirements. Cisco’s 646-204 and 642-901 study guides from test king provide fabulous results in you actual exam results. Test king enjoys number one repute for 220-601 Comptia A+ certifications.

37 Comments »

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Now that Java is officially Free Software, I think it is well worth it to take a second look at technologies such as Eclipse RCP.
I think that using Eclipse RCP would be an excellent route in developing a Groove replacement.

Cheers
Stephan

Comment by Stephan — February 13, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
I am very interested in a groove open source replacement.

I would be glad to get it added the CentOS Extras repository when it is working.

Comment by Johnny Hughes — February 13, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
I use SharePoint on a daily basis at work to upload announcements and documentation and financial, etc docs. I would be very interested in seeing a good FOSS alternative to it.

Comment by ray — February 13, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
As mentioned above, one of the compelling things about Groove is its ability to work in an offline mode and then sync its content with its partners when it gets back online. This allows people to work on the shared content when on an airplane, while working in a disconnected state, then merge details back when it connects.
I was a frequent, licensed user of Groove for over two years and would be glad to participate in building some requirements and looking at tools to make this happen in the open source world.

Comment by Tim — February 13, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Ironically I have been trying to find something along these lines at work. I work for a state agency providing tech support for all the district attorneys. They need a secure way to collaborate. I have looked at share point, groove, plone, and currently am developing this project with a drupal base. So to make a long story short I would love to see something along these lines. You mentioned a few of the reasons I did not choose groove, and well I think share point speaks for its self. I really think that there is a huge demand for this, or a least there will be in the very near future (I think some organizations just don’t realize they could use this yet). I would like to help however, my skill is lacking. I have only had a couple of semesters of c++ and some php, but maybe I could do something small just to help out and learn some more. Anyway great idea, I find it funny that I was just telling my boss something along these lines last week, that it was a shame that cvs and svn where not implemented in the open source group ware projects. Please let me know if you decide to continue with this project.

Comment by Eric — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
I’m glad to see that there’s quite a lot of interest behind this! I honestly think that a project like this, if well managed and coded, could make its way into most business environments.

Please continue to add comments, and feel free to tackle some of the key elements of this project (if it were to be continued) such as what language it would be coded in (Java, due to its portability? C#, for the same reason? Another language altogether?), how certain mechanisms such as encryption would work, and the like.

Finally, if you are a developer or documentation writer and would be willing to dedicate some time to this project if it were continued, please state which language you know (in both cases :)) and what kind of a role you would like to play in its development.

Again, if there is enough demand (and there certainly seems to be!), I will take care of setting up the project, its website, etc and organising the developers. And, if we decided to code it in a language I know or am learning, I’d be more than willing to help out with its development as well.

Comment by J_K9 — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
They may not be flavour of the month or even the decade but Novell produce an absolutely kickass collaboration application called Virtual Office.

http://www.novell.com/collateral/4621351/4621351.html

I believe it is currently only available for Netware and their OES Linux, but should be ported over onto SLES in the near future. The interesting bit is the fact that the I-Folder part of the application is already open source.
I-Folder and the directory service are pretty much what this whole application are built on.
Maybe Novell could be persuaded to open up some more of this code. However I doubt they will ever release the edirectory code.
Or at least the I-Folder code could be starting point for a seperate application.
Just a thought, please don’t flame me to badly I left my asbestos suit at home.

Comment by aa — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
I had heard of that - and iFolder in particular, as it’s Open Source - but it has the same problem as Groove: the vast majority of it is proprietary. I don’t think they have plans to Open Source it all any time soon either.

iFolder might be a good starting point, but it would have to be integrated well with this project and that would probably result in the branching of iFolder into two - iFolder, and the version implemented in this project.

Thank you for the suggestion - iFolder will be considered if/when we get a team together

Comment by J_K9 — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
As far as languages go, I would vote in favor of Python. If you look at Chandler by OSAF, they have built a pretty compelling application that is multi-platform on top of Python and the wxPython windowing subsystem. There is also great support for all of the major protocols and packages from Python as well. You really need something that will work well in an off-line mode, which means you need a thick-client or a local web-based one.

Comment by Tim — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
I think you should take a look at Lucane, http://lucane.org/EN/ is a GREAT alternative to groove, is multiplatform, and covers many aspects. Sadly, the original maintainer (Vincent Fiack) has no more time to maintain the project and is looking for a new maintainer… maybe this could be your opportunity.

Comment by magikfingerz — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
I have used Groove a while back. Though it wasnt prefect, I really like it because its software and infrastructure allow people from different subnets to easily communicate and collaborate. I would also like to participate in this effort.

Comment by kc — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Tim - Thank you for your suggestion. I don’t know Python, but it is one of my favourite languages because it is portable, has support for a wide select of networking protocols and database backends and is a powerful language all-round. I like your idea, and I think we should definitely consider Python as an option for this project.

magikfingerz - Thank you for bringing Lucane to my attention. I have taken a quick look at it and I have a few things to say about it (although I haven’t yet been able to get it working on my Linux desktop):
- From the screenshots, its interface looks fairly antiquated and is not as intuitive as I would like it to be. However, I think this may be due, in part, to its Java base.
- However, it does look fairly complete in terms of its features - everything except its handling of shared files. Filesharing would be a key part of this project, so it may be hard (or not, it depends on Lucane’s code) to integrate an existing version control system on top of this technology.
I really like the look of Lucane, but I think it may be best to start afresh, perhaps in another language, and use it as another example upon which we have to improve.

I think we should start afresh for a few reasons:
- It allows us to lay out clear guidelines and visions so that our project does not end up deceased like Lucane and so that we strive to build an easier-to-use, more intuitive groupware platform than anyone else.
- New minds can give different takes on the functionality and usability of the platform so that it’s a viable option to enterprises, organizations and users seeking such a product.
- We can decide on the most suitable language for the job. One which is cross-platform, has a powerful, simple and Open Source GUI toolkit and a good Open Source IDE (I believe that Lucane’s developers were using a proprietary IDE) available for it and which will allow us to reach our goals as closely as possible.
If there are no objections, I shall set up a separate project on SourceForge and put up a forum for us to discuss the intricacies of the platform. Even if we do end up using Lucane as a base, we can give it a completely new name and decide how we’re going to change it to make it better than before.

And now, to decide on a good name for this project

kc - Thank you too for offering to help.

Comment by J_K9 — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
The key thing about Groove that seems missed in the article is that it is P2P. There are excellent Free Open Source (FOS) and Commercial Open Source (COS) solutions in this space, mainly developed around the open source P2P platform JXTA (jxta.org).

Comment by MAC — February 14, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 1.5.0.9 on Windows XP
You need a groove-alike name. In the grand tradition of git, I propose (wait for it): rut

Comment by Abby Normal — February 14, 2007 #
Using Konqueror 3.5 on Ubuntu Linux
MAC - Perhaps you would like to expand on that? What, in your opinion, are the key advantages of P2P being used for certain tools over client/server? The increase in privacy, speed etc may be useful in some tools but in others - such as messaging another person - conversing via the server is a better option because the message and any files included with it may then be stored until the receiver comes online (unless they are already online, in which case the message is immediately forwarded). Which tools or utilities do you think would benefit from P2P over client/server?

Abby Normal - Haha! Well, you may be slightly surprised by the name I’ve chosen for it… I’m about to post about that - give me fifteen minutes

Comment by J_K9 — February 15, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
[…] to the need which has been expressed for a powerful, extensible, easy-to-use Open Source client/server groupware platform (that is […]

Pingback by J_K9 @ Linux » Mira Groupware: Pending Review — February 15, 2007 #
Using WordPress 2.1
This project has been dubbed “Mira Groupware” and is now pending review for hosting on SourceForge.net! Please continue to contribute to this small wealth of knowledge by sharing your opinions and ideas using the comment form below. Thank you!

Comment by J_K9 — February 15, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
IMHO, one of Groove’s great strengths is the P2P nature of the product. It doesn’t require a server, and the clients just kind of find each other when they are connected. To be sure, this requires a server of some kind that allows the clients to register that they are on the Internet, what their IP address is, etc…. but the clients do communicate using a P2P protocol.
There are some good ones out there - we should look at which one Chandler is using, as that seems to work really well, and it is supported by Python. Seems like it is Jabber or its underlying protocol…

Comment by Tim — February 15, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Just another note about P2P - one of the benefits I see is that none of my data (encrypted or not) lives on someone’s server … it gets communicated between the clients, but I don’t have to worry about my new business idea falling into nefarious hands because they’ve hacked the repository. Groove markets this capability quite actively.

Comment by Tim — February 15, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Ah, right - I see what you mean. I’m going to have to find a few more documents on how Groove works. Does its Files tool work via P2P too?

The reason Groove can use P2P is that Microsoft has no trouble setting up a few public servers to maintain databases of registered clients and their IP address, which is required for P2P to work properly (especially when those collaborating are not on the same subnet). I think this would be more difficult for an Open Source project unless we gathered significant funding to run the servers and pay for the pipes.

This is why I proposed the client/server model - not only does it make it much easier to build on top of current version control systems, but that server can also maintain the database of who has yet to read a certain new event or file, messages which have been sent to colleagues who are not yet online, etc. I think the client/server model is more powerful, in this case, than P2P, and would allow Groove to have greater functionality. However, I do see your point about the server being a single point of failure - not only is all your data exposed if it is compromised (unless there are strict security policies and mechanisms enforcing those policies in place), but everyone suffers a loss of availability if that server goes offline for a certain period of time, no matter what the reason.

If Mira Groupware gets accepted for SourceForge hosting, I’ll set up a wiki on its website - that will allow us to document our thoughts in a clearer way and to choose which of the options to implement

Comment by J_K9 — February 16, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
[…] I expressed in a previous post, the current Open Source desktop groupware solutions are unsatisfactory - in truth, we don’t […]

Pingback by J_K9 @ Linux » Announcing Mira Groupware — February 17, 2007 #
Using WordPress 2.1
Open-Source Groove is HERE!
www.collaber.com
100% Java - build on Eclipe
March 30/2007 release.
Gentlemen - start your engines!

Comment by chris — February 23, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 7.0 on Windows XP
I am Groove power user for over 3 years together with my other 5 team members (we currently have 5 licenses). I would love to find an alternative platform since Groove seems to be “deadlocked” (very few upgrades) since after Micro$oft acquired them and I have the feeling M$ will phase Groove out as an independent platform to force the adoption of an integrated M$ Office Groove, which I’m really not interested in since:

- I barely use office applications (and thus will not pay M$ scorchingly high prices for their Office suite);
- and since M$ will probably make a big mess mixing these two very different things together as one can only guess.

Not to mention that all other platforms (like Mac OSX and Linux) that the Groove team was developing back in 2004 were abandoned for obvious reasons after the M$ acquisition. And that is a big problem for my team, since we all use different development platforms (like Mac OSX and Linux) but we have to keep Windows machines mainly because of Groove.

If this project is serious about developing a trully multi-platform open source Groove alternative I would be happy to get involved (I know a lot of people that would to).

Comment by Samuel — March 1, 2007 #
Using Camino 1.0.3 on Mac OS X
[…] We want to make it an Open source alternative to Groove. […]

Pingback by Collaber Blog » Blog Archive » Open Source Collaber — March 4, 2007 #
Using WordPress 2.1
Hi all,
We want to make our software Collaber open source. In that regard we request your suggestions at blog.collaber.com. We feel that collaber suits as the alternative to groove.

Thanks
Rajesh Akkineni

Comment by Rajesh Akkineni — March 4, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.2 on Windows XP
[…] Groupware, an Open Source alternative to Groove, now has its very own website which will be its centre of information and development. There you […]

Pingback by J_K9 @ Linux » MiraGroupware.org: Registered And Ready — March 5, 2007 #
Using WordPress 2.1.2
I would love to see somthing that speaks directly to Groove 2007 my company uses groove and only one 2 of us run linux. I think the ability to have groove would give me the ability to move away from microsoft in one more step. Thanks

Comment by Jadog — June 25, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 7.0 on Windows Vista
I am new to linux. I convinced my company to use Groove as it offers us a lot of communication and synchronisation possibilities. Last week I also convinced them to start shifting to Linux. The obvious question was: can we use groove on Linux. Well I am postponing the answer. So please, go for it.
Ta

Comment by Michel — July 21, 2007 #
Using Opera 9.21 on Windows Vista
Like a previous comment mentioned, i would also be interested in the groove 2007 link.

Comment by Asbestos Cancer Help — September 7, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows XP
Collaber fails because it is not open source. (First commenter that mentioned it is totally wrong; it is basically free though.) See http://www.collaber.com/node/146

A shame because it is a pretty good “copy” of Groove 2007.

Comment by Felipe — March 19, 2008 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.12 on Mac OS X
Nude Pictures Of Old Women And Men…

Nude Pictures Of Old Women And Men…

Trackback by Anonymous — April 4, 2008 #
Using Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows XP
Somas….

Somas. Somas with carisoprodol doese t contain codeine. Do somas show up in aurine test. Somas do they have codeine in them….

Trackback by Somas engineering consultants. — April 28, 2008 #
Using Unknown browser
Lowest price tramadol….

Tramadol side effects. Tramadol. Comparative potencies of opioids tramadol….

Trackback by Tramadol soma zoloft prozac onlineprescription.md. — May 30, 2008 #
Using Unknown browser
What happens when you crush xanax xr….

Xanax valium. No rx online xanax. Psyweb xanax. Xanax. Xanax side effects. Ativan xanax valuim trial pack….

Trackback by Xanax. — May 30, 2008 #
Using Unknown browser
Cheap airfare….

Cheapest airfare for cheapskates….

Trackback by Airfare. — May 30, 2008 #
Using Unknown browser
I would be happy to donate some time for an open source alternative to groove

Comment by Steve — July 22, 2008 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows Vista
I’m a little late to the party but I would be interested in contributing and would like to offer the following feature suggestions:
- P2P model (no servers other than relays and no hosting model)
- File versioning similar to Subversion (Groove supports a form of this but keeps directory synchronization separate from workspace sync)
- Twitter and other social collaboration tool support
- HTML editors rather than the Rich Text that Groove supports
- Office 2007 integration for one button synchronization of documents

Comment by Bryan Campbell — August 10, 2008 #
Using Internet Explorer 7.0 on Windows Vista