J_K9 @ Linux

Announcing Mira Groupware

February 17, 2007 on 3:29 am | In Mira Groupware |

As I expressed in a previous post, the current Open Source desktop groupware solutions are unsatisfactory - in truth, we don’t have a Groove equivalent which, despite having its faults, is an excellent, albeit proprietary, groupware solution. Thanks to the community’s support and motivation, I subsequently decided to submit this project to SourceForge for hosting under the name “Mira Groupware.”

Great news: Mira has been accepted! However, as SourceForge’s shell service is currently down for “unplanned maintenance,” I cannot upload the wiki, forum and other software to Mira’s new website until the shell service is brought back up.

For the uninitiated, please read my first post about this project and the following presentation which I have put together to introduce you to Mira and its planned features and to demonstrate why such a solution would be helpful in a myriad of situations:

If you are interested in a groupware solution and are looking for features which you have not been able to find in other solutions, or you are particularly impressed by some of their feature implementations, then please do let us know by leaving a comment at the end of this post!

Speaking of comments, I have just written a small PHP application which will act as a sort of ‘one-way mailing list’ to keep you informed of what is happening with Mira and where it is going. Please note that you will be subscribed to the Mira Groupware Notification List if you leave a comment on this page, but you may unsubscribe if you wish at the click of a button (or simply state that you would not like to be subscribed in your comment).

Mira is also looking for developers - it doesn’t matter which languages you know, as the language that Mira will be coded in has not yet been decided! However, if you share the same passion as I do for an easy-to-use, extensible, feature-rich Open Source groupware solution then please do leave a post below and contribute to the wiki when it is set up. And don’t worry about having to check Mira’s website every hour or so waiting for the wiki to be set up - if you allow me to subscribe you to the Notification List, you will be notified as soon as it is ready!

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You should do it in mono/c#

Comment by Gunny — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0 on Ubuntu Linux
Have you had a look at http://pim.kde.org/akonadi/ I’m not sure if it fits you’re needs but it may be a nice way to cut out a part of the work aw well as allow diffrent programs access to the data.

Comment by annonomous — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla 1.8.1.1 on Debian GNU/Linux
Why YET ANOTHER platform? Learn from the mistakes made by projects like Yoga and Gnuotes and Glow. Open source groupware is HARD TO DO, and most of the projects that get started, never get finished. An idea goes out, followed by a call for developers, followed by someone implementing an anemic 0.1 version - maybe — and that’s about it.

You would be FAR better off collaborating with one or more of the existing open source groupware platforms, and layering on the “collaborative workspace” functions similar to Groove that you seem to want to have.

How about Citadel? The developers would be happy to work with you to provide whatever API’s and back ends you need to do collaborative workspaces and you wouldn’t have to start from scratch.

Comment by ig — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 0.10.1 on Linux
Whatever you decide to use it in…one thing is for certain.

It should plugin with OpenOffice and use ODF.

Comment by devnet — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
This is most certainly an interesting project.
Perhaps you should consider doing it along with the boys? Novell would certainly be interested in supporting this.

Comment by Morten Juhl Johansen — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
Sorry, a mistake in formatting. I was referring to the “Make it with Mono” boys @ http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/makeitwithmono/index.php

Comment by Morten Juhl Johansen — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Linux
Gunny - Mono is getting better and better, and C# is an excellent language, so the C#/Mono combination is certainly an option!

annonomous - Akonadi is more of a Personal Information Manager (PIM) than a groupware platform. Whereas the former is most suitable for personal organisation - tasks, emails, calendar, etc - a groupware platform exists to ease collaboration between people using PIM-like facilities (but which are shared and can be altered by everyone who has access to them). Akonadi’s design and some of its features may be used as a base for Mira’s - it depends on how adaptable they are and how suitable they are for the job (ie. whether it would be easier to integrate and modify them to fit our platform or to redo them from the start).

ig - Most Open Source groupware projects have fallen through because they are vast undertakings and, exactly as you said, are difficult to create and manage - but that doesn’t mean that they are impossible. I currently manage two other projects and am an active member in one other, and through my experience I have found that, as long as there is a solid documentation explaining aims, hopes, features in detail and especially a roadmap with deadlines for each features (it gives the developers a target), the project can be successful. One of the two projects I manage effectively “died” a year ago - why? Because the documentation was poor, the developers were disorganised and everything just fell apart. Now, it’s back under development, and as its developer (there’s only one at the moment, compared to the five it had a year ago) shares the same passion as I do to see such an application hit the mainstream we have restructured the project and completely revamped its website, documentation, etc. We are also constantly collaborating via email, so that he can give me updates on what is happening and I can guide him whenever he needs help. That’s why that project will not fall through a second time - and neither will Mira, as long as we follow the same structural organisation.
Thank you for bringing Citadel to my attention. It’s an interesting project, but I think it would be slightly presumptuous of me to request such a huge change in the codebase just so that Citadel could fit my vision (which several others seem to share) - it does not seem feasible. I’m sure that Citadel may be used effectively in many environments, but I do not think that it could easily be molded into the project which I have described.

devnet - I think OpenOffice.org integration is an excellent idea! In fact, there is already a brilliant, OO.org-integrated groupware platform called O3Spaces who will be releasing an Open Source version of their platform this year. Take a look at it - it’s probably on the same level as Groove in terms of functionality, and it’s certainly pretty. Why, then, start a new groupware platform? Because Mira will not just be ‘another groupware platform’ - it *will* be the most extensible (with a wide range of plugins), the most secure (with integration of role based access controls and the like), the easiest to use and, put simply, the best. It will be designed, from the start, to have a better design and architecture than its competitors, and be flexible enough to suit a wide variety of environments.
Perhaps I am being over-optimistic? I don’t think so. With the right programming language, a good group of motivated developers and the right organisational skills (it’s ironic that a groupware platform of Mira’s sort would be so useful in its development ;)), it can be accomplished.

Morten - Ah, yes, I read about that in LXF as well! Thank you. As I’ve said, Mono/C# is definitely an option, and it may well be chosen as the language with which to develop Mira

Please do keep the comments coming!

Comment by J_K9 — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
I’d expect Akonadi to be very adaptable, after all the design includes having diffrent groups create their own API for it.

I hope it works out since if you use Akonadi then people will be able to use unrelated programs to access their data.

Comment by annonomous — February 17, 2007 #
Using Mozilla 1.8.1.1 on Debian GNU/Linux
I’d be glad to contribute to the project in a requirements and use case basis. Keep me posted on what your needs are. I was a frequent Groove user for 2 years, so I can weigh in on features we had in that product.

Comment by Tim — February 18, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Everybody worth their salt knows that Peregrine, should and will win make it with mono.

If you are not going to write it in Mono/C#, I think a core in C++ with plugins written in Python would be good.

Comment by Gunny — February 18, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0 on Ubuntu Linux
annonomous - We’ll look into it. If Akonadi compatibility isn’t provided by Mira itself, I’m sure there will be some plugins which will do so (if it makes sense, of course)

Tim - Thank you for the offer! The notification email which I am about to send out should give you some places to start a discussion on use cases, which can then be incorporated into presentations and blurbs on the website.

Gunny - The problem with C++ is that it’s not as portable as other languages, and we may end up spending more time writing backends for different OSs than improving the platform’s features. It’s worth considering though.

Comment by J_K9 — February 18, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Ubuntu Linux
Idea sound very interesting.
If you need help in translation for different
Russian Romanian and I hope soon Japanese
languages let me know.

Comment by mudrii — February 20, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0 on Linux
I am interested

Comment by UndiFineD — February 20, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows 2000
Frameworks such as Apache Portable Runtime (APR) will provides a good os abstract layer if we want to use C/C++.

Comment by kc — February 20, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Wh about the Hula proect that Novel had going? It ight make a good base.

Comment by George Farris — February 21, 2007 #
Using Opera 8.02 on Linux
We already have 90% of what we need. We can use an IMAP server, an SMTP server and OpenLDAP for mail+contacts+users with the added benefit of having LDAP for user resolution.
For the other parts, we have stuff like jabber.

What is lacking then is the glue to stick it all together, a nice (management) GUI AND a calendar server that does CALDav.

The last thing is the end-all solution we are so desperately missing.

Comment by Nocturn — February 21, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
mudrii: Thank you! I will contact you when we have a working version of the platform out.

UndiFineD: Thank you as well.

kc: Would you like to expand on that in the forums, please? We are having a dicussion about this at the moment, and it would be great to have your input as well

George Farris: If this is the Hula project you are talking about (and I believe it is), it seems that Novell stopped supporting the developers late last year.. It’s also web browser-based and not as full-featured as what we’re aiming for, but it is definitely an interesting project.

Nocturn: That is true, but the setup times and costs might be greater if so many different services would be required to be set up before the groupware service could work properly. While I think we could definitely try to add support for such services (such as LDAP for authentication or IMAP/POP + SMTP for email), which might be available as plugins, I think it would be best to allow the Mira server-side service to run everything needed for the Mira client’s default features, as you can get to a working groupware platform much faster. Then, if there is a large driving force behind a certain plugin (eg. email), we could integrate it into Mira Please visit our forums, as we’re currently having discussions about this kind of thing.

Comment by J_K9 — February 21, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows XP
@J_K9
I understand your reasoning and many groupware projects such as Hula follow that line of thinking.

But a lot of Unix/Linux environments already have working and tuned mail+av/antispam systems in place which they don’t like to break (in my case, Hula does not offer the GSSAPI authentication which I use to achieve SSO on my network).

Comment by Nocturn — February 21, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Have you seen citadel yet:
http://www.citadel.org/doku.php

It is really nice but lacks CalDAV.

Comment by Nocturn — February 21, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
From citadel.org (you have much goals in common with them):

The Groupware Server for Web 2.0

Citadel is a complete and feature-rich open source groupware platform.

*
Email, calendaring/scheduling, address books
*
Bulletin boards, mailing list server, instant messaging
*
Multiple domain support
*
An intuitive, attractive AJAX-style web interface

Users love Citadel because it’s software that helps them work, play, stay in touch… without calling attention to itself. System administrators love Citadel because it installs in minutes without the need to manually integrate all the different components together.The key to Citadel’s versatility is its unique architecture. A Citadel system is made up of containers called “rooms.” A room may be used as an email folder, a discussion forum, a real-time chat, a mailing list, a calendar, an address book, an RSS sink … sometimes a combination of any of the above, and certainly any other uses which could be added in the future. Furthermore, you can replicate rooms between multiple Citadel nodes, allowing you to set up a federated, distributed messaging environment.With that in mind, Citadel excels at applications such as:

*
E-mail and groupware (shared calendaring, etc.)
*
Bulletin Board System (BBS)
*
Online discussion forums / chat rooms

The Citadel system is extremely versatile. It provides numerous front ends to present to users, such as a text-based interface, an AJAX-style web interface, and many popular PIM clients using SMTP/POP/IMAP. All of these can be used simultaneously.It’s also extremely scalable. Not only can a well-equipped Citadel server support a large number of concurrent users, but you can also build a distributed network of Citadel nodes that share rooms and their content.
Features:

*
Email, calendaring, address books, bulletin boards, instant messaging, and more … all in one tightly integrated server package. Unlike other open source groupware systems, all of Citadel’s data stores are built-in. “Integrate-it-yourself” is a thing of the past.
*
High-performance, multiprotocol, multithreaded server engine
*
Web browser, telnet/SSH, local client software accessible
*
Standards-compliant e-mail built in: IMAP, POP3, ESMTP
*
Group calendaring and scheduling (GroupDAV, Aethera, and Kolab-1 compatible)
*
Built-in listserv (mailing list server)
*
Database-driven, single-instance message store
*
Authenticated SMTP (no more tedious mucking about with POP-before-SMTP hacks!)
*
Multiple domain support
*
Built-in integration with perimiter email filtering technologies such as Realtime Blackhole Lists (RBL’s) and SpamAssassin
*
Very strong replication features. Users in any number of domains can be spread out across any number of Citadel servers, allowing you to put data where you need it, and enabling infinite horizontal scalability.
*
Web-based access to email, calendars, and everything else through a powerful AJAX-style front end
*
Very strong support for “public folders” and message forums.
*
Built-in instant messenger service
*
SSL/TLS encryption for all protocols
*
LDAP integration capabilities. Citadel can populate your existing directory server, or it can configure a standalone directory server if you don’t already have one.
*
Citadel is here today and is actively maintained – it’s neither vaporware nor abandonware.

Comment by Nocturn — February 21, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Who will own the code (you know, the copyrights.. the “IP”)?

Why use Mono? Presumably if this is going to attach to anything or reuse other components, we would be able to find something more compatible than mono. I would think Java would be a choice before Mono, especially with it looking like we will have multiple full Java implementations (including GPL) without IP problems to worry about down the line [at least compared with Mono]. At this point Mono gives one very large company a tremendous advantage over the rest because of IP issues.

I am not interested in “working for free” without knowing more about how the code ownership and such will be handled, what the specific end license will be [preference is for GPL3 when that is done in order to get some amount of protections against patent lawsuits], why we can’t fork something or atleast reuse numerous components, what will be the main languages, etc. Am I being offered something more than what I get by working with an established project which already has marketplace traction and which may even allow me to keep ownership of my code?

Comment by Jose — February 23, 2007 #
Using Mozilla Firefox 1.0.4 on Linux
Nocturn: Citadel is probably an excellent solution for many environments, but the aim of this project is to create a desktop groupware solution which would allow people to read all of their Workplace’s data (from the last time they synced) both online and offline. If it were a desktop platform, I would consider joining them

Jose: This platform will be licensed under GPL versions 2 and above, so no-one will own the code (although we will, of course, manage it). Yes, the code you write will remain yours, but it will become part of the GPL’d platform if your commit/patch is accepted (as I’m sure you know). From what I have read, there are no copyright or IP problems with Mono, despite the fact that it implements technology originally created by Microsoft. Java is still an option, but, from what little experience I have had with it, I have found it difficult to customise GUI widgets such as buttons and tabs (for example) to make them more aesthetically pleasing. If you would like to discuss these and other issues, please post them on Mira’s forums (which will soon be changed, but the conversations will be saved and transferred) Thank you for your input - I will try to answer your other questions on the forum, or perhaps on the wiki in a few hours.

Comment by J_K9 — February 23, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows XP
Gentlemen,
Take a look at Collaber.com
100% Java. Built on Eclipe
As such, open for development at various access points.
March 30th / 2007 release date.

Comment by chris — February 23, 2007 #
Using Internet Explorer 7.0 on Windows XP
[…] Software, In the News at 10:32 am Mira is a proposed FOSS groupware solution. My good friend Max has posted a message on his blog explaining the concept. I thought I would help in spreading the message with a post […]

Pingback by Hari’s Corner » Mira Groupware — March 7, 2007 #
Using WordPress 2.1.2
[…] been almost 3 months since Mira was accepted for hosting on SourceForge, I think it’s time to get the ball rolling. A few friends, developers and I […]

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